Blame oil speculation by big banks for rising gas prices, not threats from Iran - The Young Turks with Cenk Uygur // Current TV

It would be to our benefit, and Pres. Obama's as well, if he'd grab this issue and beat it bloody day and night.

This is part of the reason for creation of the consumer protection agency -- the one that the GOP has tried so hard to kill. Commodities markets were deregulated by Phil Gramm 12 years ago -- energy prices, beginning with Enron's California fake crisis, have never looked back.

This needs to be in the public's face 24/7. People need to hear something besides the PR releases from the oil companies that get read verbatim in the news.

It would also be nice if our friendly newsies would get off their collective asses, stop repackaging news releases from business and Wall Street as "news", and start digging into this story. It's their job, after all.

• Wall Street is making major contributions to Super PACs supporting opposition to President Obama.
• Wall Street is also greasing the way for a major teapublicon campaign talking point by using speculation to drive up the costs of oil/gas during this election year.
• Wall Street knows that teapublicon supporters will refuse to listen to explanations that Wall Street speculation is creating the problem.

This is MY theory and have nothing to back it up with, but I believe that the reason we're seeing this sudden rise in prices in not only because of speculators, but the XL pipeline deal is also something to look at. This is something republicans will point out. I guarantee you this. They will try to make their case about how Obama let oil prices go up because of the XL deal not going through. Just sit back and watch all of the articles on the vine and the stories being reported on Fox News in the coming weeks. But remember I called it first.

It would be to our benefit, and Pres. Obama's as well, if he'd grab this issue and beat it bloody day and night.

Sorry, Obama has already come out in favor of higher gas prices showing his allegiance to wall street and the banks.

I guess were taking out "under God" and inserting "under banks" in the Pledge of Allegiance. Although that stuff about liberty and justice for all will probably have to change as well.

I guess were taking out "under God" and inserting "under banks" in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Sure would be more accurate.

you lost me with Santorum... when has he ever said anything relevant.

I guess OWS will rename themselves OOIL... until then it seems they think WS an Banks are running the show.

Remember the shrill GOP complaints when the POTUS opened the strategic oil reserve? This was a move designed as an effective counter to the speculators who were financing the supertankers circling around the mid-Atlantic waiting for prices to rise. . .

There are a lot of people who now see their portfolios as their only savior, and what better and easier way to obtain excellent ROI's, than to hose those who operate motor vehicles?

Big Oil has had its thumb on the politicians of this country for years. In Minnesota, our own Ellen Anderson was rejected along party lines. The Republicans felt she had too much zeal for renewable resources, which would infringe on her ability to regulate the gas and electric companies.

I found out about it, knowing $4 gas is looming this spring, and I wanted to slap every Republican doormat who voted her out.

And I just betcha they'll be blasting Obama for requesting a more thorough evaluation of the project prior to authorizing construction.

I also want to know how much these GOPers earn to sell out their integrity. Is it really worth it?

They are in the business of speculation. That's how the stock market and commodities market works. And we as investors hope for rise in prices because that's how we make money. There are thousands of investment funds that need to make money. The only way to do that is generate profits.

But at what cost to the nation, Nick? How many should endure the effects, and how long, before you would say you have enough?

Assuming of course, it's possible for ANY investor to have enough. This sort of thing is what will bring the nation down.

We are seeing a new career politician who has gone into "public service" only to enrich themselves.

That's the end result. I think they all start out with good intentions but once they see the cornucopiafull of goodies they're done. The other issue is that is they don't play the game they won't last long. At one time Gingrich was a powerful person in politics and he pissed someone off. He became a non entity quick.

I would like to know what ever happened to RICO. The Fed and Banks, and the Investment Houses, are nothing but Racketeering, and nobody cares, why? I guess we learned to do business like the Russian Mafia, good business model, you know.

From $13 Billion in Oil Commodity trading in 2005 to $300 Billion in 2009, this is not free market capitalism, it is Market Manipulation. Speculation for profit damages every industry that relies on the commodity and all the citizens who consume the commodity. It is little difference from the the thug in the alley who uses a weapon to steal your wallet and Commodity Speculators using the superior size of their bank roll to steal the money out of all Americans wallets at the gas pump. Both are morallybankrupt, at least the thug often has the shame to hide is face under a mask.

Yea, so much for free markets, but more importantly good bye to supply and demand economics.

But at what cost to the nation, Nick? How many should endure the effects, and how long, before you would say you have enough?

This is how the free market works. It always has. I really don't know what to say other than nothing has changed in many years. And it sounds like you have not invested well so you feel no one should profit. But the fact remains that most people are invested in some way or another and want companies to make big profits so the can also. It's a risk either way. People invested in real estate and now they are blaming the big ole banks for taking advantage. If they had made money they would be selling and buying more real estate.

You people do understand that OIL is traded WORLDWIDE right?

You people do realize that since many of you will not allow America to use our natural resources to compete on that WORLD MARKET...that we are at the mercy of the producing Nations...Right?

You do understand that American Banks DO NOT SET THE PRICE OF OIL !

And finally you really are using a guy that couldn't make it on MSNBC and now is on Current TV ... An entity owned by AL GORE, of all people as your source of NEWS ... On the truth about OIL !!

Al Gore the the King of Global Warming.... His network is your source of information on OIL ...Amazing ! Or embarrassing? You Pick !

My God ... Oil is a comodity traded world wide... Do you people think that Goldman Sach's controls the price of Oil between Russia and Europe? Between Iran and China ?

No it's decided daily by world markets ....

Do you think New York sets the price of Oil ? Really ? Frickin Oil is bought and sold on world markets...

Wake up and smell the Global Climate Change waste by product called Current TV !

Why is gas so expensive, Goldman Sachs, why is college education so expensive, Goldman Sachs, they have their hands in everything.

They are in the business of speculation. That's how the stock market and commodities market works. And we as investors hope for rise in prices because that's how we make money. There are thousands of investment funds that need to make money. The only way to do that is generate profits.

You small investors are not making money, give me a break, your paying the high price that knocks your investments down. Your investment is offset by every high price that happens across this nation because of the gouging. Your food costs more because your gas costs more, your dentist charges more because his expenses rise, your mechanic costs more because everything else costs more, anything that is shipped to you costs more. SO MUCH FOR YOUR INVESTMENT as you are NOT making money

Oil needs to be privatized if it is so essential to our security.

Well you convince the Oil producing nations to do that? Start with Russia, Saudi Arabia and Iran ...

Let me know how that works out... Since as I said the US as a Oil producer is so far down the chain we have Zero say in anything to do with Oil...

We have had better (and calmer) explanations of how trading works and it does not work for us.

Does not work for who? It is what it is and you nor I have a say in how world powers Nations that own their own resources sell what is theirs...

Don't like the way its done... Then help the USA become a producer again... and have the ability to effect the price ...Or sit there and complain that the other countries have all the power! Because they DO!

Why is gas so expensive, Goldman Sachs

No its because of a price set by producer nations for a product that they have and other nations want....

why is college education so expensive, Goldman Sachs

No...because Colleges and Universities keep raising the price of tuition... And people like you blame the banks that give the student loans... Lets try that same logic on any other thing a bank loans money on!

Cars cost to much because banks will loan you the money you ask for to buy the car? How did the Loaning of the money effect the price of the car?

Houses cost so much because the Bank will loan you the money you ask them to give you to buy the house... How did the loaning of the money effect the price of the house?

You go to a bank and want to borrow money to buy a car, a house or for college tuition...

You tell the bank how much you need ... Right? The damn bank didn't set the price of the car, house or tuition...

So explain to me and anyone else just how are banks responsible for the high cost of tuition ?

Blame the damn SCHOOLS... They set he price of tuition, books lodging...

Do they not? A bank loans the student the amount they ask for to pay the Tuition to the SCHOOL...

Look into just how rich these colleges and universities really are then ask why does tuition go up every year... Harvard Endowment Fund ... See how many BILLION they have in those banks !

No surprise here, the only way to stop this @!$%# is to stop energy speculation.

Actually it is because we will be in a war with Iran before the election and the market senses what is going on.

No matter what happens between now and the election, the reason gas prices are going through the roof is because of speculation, nothing more. Just like it has been every time there is a fart in the Middle East, the banks and speculators rush to drive up the cost of crude. Then when it doesn't materialize, it takes months to bring the price back down, never quite as low as it was before. It is a scam and the sheeple buy it.

This is the result of a government that will not let this country harvest the resources within its own borders.

I do not doubt what you write. WHy is it that we need two wars now to please the industrial military greedheads?

It is more like the incompetence of our president and secretary of state.

Nice deflection there space guy....take the afternoon off get the cat washed..

Some want Israel to attack Iran. Some want oil prices to go up. Some want to see both happen...

The one who wants both to happen is the speculator.....They profit both ways.... Us well not so much...

While these greedy oil speculators are gouging all of us, the Obama administration is doing nothing. So oil money has now bought silence from the White House?

The Real Reason Gas Prices Are Soaring
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/03/28/the-real-reason-gas-prices-are-soaring/

Dan Dicker, who has spent nearly three decades in the oil market, has a profoundly disturbing explanation of why the price of oil, and the gasoline that comes from the crude product, has risen so dramatically in recent months. It turns out, Dicker says, that the price has nothing to do with supply and demand for oil. It's the financial market for oil, filled with both professional speculators and amateur investors betting on poorly understood oil exchange-traded funds, who have ratcheted up the price of gas to such sky high levels.

"There is no supply issue going on here - what you have is the perception of the possibility of a supply issue," Dicker says. "A whole bunch of people are pouring money into an oil market trying to take advantage of what they perceive to be a real risk in supply. It's a marketplace that I argue should not be allowed to be wagered on like a stock or bond."

A 2006 article about Bush era "regulation."

‘Perhaps 60% of today’s oil price is pure speculation’

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?aid=8878&context=va

How today’s oil prices are really determined is done by a process so opaque only a handful of major oil trading banks such as Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley have any idea who is buying and who selling oil futures or derivative contracts that set physical oil prices in this strange new world of “paper oil.”

With the development of unregulated international derivatives trading in oil futures over the past decade or more, the way has opened for the present speculative bubble in oil prices.

Since the advent of oil futures trading and the two major London and New York oil futures contracts, control of oil prices has left OPEC and gone to Wall Street. It is a classic case of the “tail that wags the dog.”

A June 2006 US Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations report on “The Role of Market Speculation in rising oil and gas prices,” noted, “…there is substantial evidence supporting the conclusion that the large amount of speculation in the current market has significantly increased prices.”

What the Senate committee staff documented in the report was a gaping loophole in US Government regulation of oil derivatives trading so huge a herd of elephants could walk through it. That seems precisely what they have been doing in ramping oil prices through the roof in recent months.

The Senate report was ignored in the media and in the Congress.

The report pointed out that the Commodity Futures Trading Trading Commission, a financial futures regulator, had been mandated by Congress to ensure that prices on the futures market reflect the laws of supply and demand rather than manipulative practices or excessive speculation. The US Commodity Exchange Act (CEA) states, “Excessive speculation in any commodity under contracts of sale of such commodity for future delivery . . . causing sudden or unreasonable fluctuations or unwarranted changes in the price of such commodity, is an undue and unnecessary burden on interstate commerce in such commodity.”

Further, the CEA directs the CFTC to establish such trading limits “as the Commission finds are necessary to diminish, eliminate, or prevent such burden.” Where is the CFTC now that we need such limits?

They seem to have deliberately walked away from their mandated oversight responsibilities in the world’s most important traded commodity, oil.

Well, the CFTC is still walking away from their job.

Lobbyist In Charge Of ‘Trying To Kill’ Financial Reform Hired By GOP Chair To Oversee Financial Regulations

A few days ago, incoming Agriculture Chairman Rep. Frank Lucas (R-OK) announced the hire of Ryan McKee as the senior staffer to oversee the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. McKee is currently a lobbyistworking for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s division dedicated to deregulating complex derivatives products. In her new role working for Lucas, McKee will be liaising with regulators in charge of implementing new rules under the Dodd-Frank Wall Street reform law to overhaul the over-the-counter derivatives market.

McKee needs to get fired, Frank Lucas needs to be impeached out of office.

Then you have the Republican economic treason against Americans nicely summarized by Eric Cantor.

Cantor Promises Oil Speculators That GOP Will Block Financial Regulations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcXJR7eZ_jQ

Straight from the horse's weasel's mouth with no editorializing.

We do have the Alaska Oil Pipeline to judge Oil spills and damage to the animals and the land don't we?

So do we have more problems with Oil Pipelines or Oil tankers?

And someone explaining to me how the country that we import the most of our oil from ... Not sending that oil to the US and sending it to China...And forcing the US to find a new source of oil to supply the US!

Just how did we improve our position... In the world... ?

Its not about 20 jobs or 200 or 2000 its about the long term interests of the United States... And our energy needs...Do we instead of getting oil through a pipeline over US and Canadian land mass instead getting our oil from tankers from the Middle East or South America?

Sorry it really seems like a no brainer....

The oil is going to China. We will never put any in our tanks.

Well THANK YOU President Obama ....

China didn't hesitate now did it?

So America does without .... great Foreign Policy and Energy policy decision rolled into one there....... don't you think?

This is how the free market works.

I'd say it's more like how the unlimited market works, and the various degrees of greed should not be the only limits.

I see this as a campaign promise delivered. Obama promised to double energy prices in 2008 and here we are. As long as Obama can keep energy prices going higher and higher, then his green energy plans will become more attractive. It's all in the design so suck it up and stop driving if you think gas is to high! But stop trying to give the credit to other people and give the President his due!

There's some speculation in the price. And fear from volatile areas.

But fundamentally oil needs to be as high as it is in order to extract new sources. All the big easy fields are essentially found, in order to get it out of deeper ocean areas, canadian sands, shales, and more hazardous areas, the price has to be higher.

Also, because almost all the refineries price in Brent, it is higher than what WTI indicates. There's a $20 spread right now between the two sources.

My God ... Oil is a comodity traded world wide... Do you people think that Goldman Sach's controls the price of Oil between Russia and Europe? Between Iran and China ?

No it's decided daily by world markets ....

....it's decided on futures markets. (Which means trading).

Now, it is true there is a certain fundamental demand for this commodity, an available supply, rising demand from emerging countries, etc, etc.

But there is also an amount of speculation and fear in the price.

That speculation ran away in 2008, way beyond where it should have been. That's why oil bubble popped well ahead of the financial crash in 2008. It burst in July. The crisis didn't begin in full affect until September.

And of course, it should be obvious that there is a significant influence from commodity/futures markets. Oil dropped to $35 within 6 months. Despite the fact that even in over supply, there was still demand, still limitations on the supply, and still the fear factor.

Let me know how that works out... Since as I said the US as a Oil producer is so far down the chain we have Zero say in anything to do with Oil...

.......?

Not showing the smarts.

A) The US *IS* one of the largest oil producers in the world. In fact, we're #3, behind Saudi Arabia and Russia.

B) The US dollar has an impact on oil. Part of the reason oil got so cheap in the 80s is the dollar appreciated almost 100% from the low in the 70s to the high in the 80s.

C) The same impact has happened as the US dollar declined in the 2000s.

The US and it's economic policies have a great deal to do with the price of oil. Though, coincidentally, high oil prices help push us away from using it.

It also will turn North Dakota into one of the largest oil producers in the world all by itself. And has made natural gas become abundantly available.

Don't like the way its done... Then help the USA become a producer again... and have the ability to effect the price ...Or sit there and complain that the other countries have all the power! Because they DO!

We have the cheapest energy sources in the world. Natural Gas costs $16 in China, $15 in India, and $2.50 here. We're about to become one of the largest exporters of energy/petroleum products in the next 10 to 20 years.

All that said.

The Midwest Aquifer is a *national resource* it's the 2nd largest one in the world and of vital strategic importance in a world that is water short. So, I'm all for re-directing that pipeline in a responsible way.

Also drilling in a responsible way here. We have to demand environmental safety on that. And we can do it. Our energy sources are so much cheaper than the world price, private producers can *more than afford* to take all environmental care needed to get it out.

Not everyone is a greedhead.

I disagree. Everyone wants more than they have. It's human nature. We don't have the capability to turn our greed into wealth so we call those that do excessive.

Well THANK YOU President Obama .... China didn't hesitate now did it? So America does without ....

the XL pipeline was never meant for America's use.. never... it has always been intended to be used for export... there is already a pipline going to hartford Ill. that is being used for America's production...

This is how the free market works.

we haven't had "free markets" in a long time really.. they are incredibly fixed by lobbyists and legislatiors to promoite the highest sense of profit for corporations.. the last of the free markets are your neighborhood or local farmers markets...

the XL pipeline was never meant for America's use.. never... it has always been intended to be used for export... there is already a pipline going to hartford Ill. that is being used for America's production...

?

There's barely any refining done outside of the coasts. Almost 50% of all of it is done in the Gulf. The pipelines thru Minn down to Chicago and other midwest areas are small exchanges and aren't direct either.

It will be access to oil that is less than Brent price. Refineries have under used capacity, domestic consumption is down for gas/petroleum products. This will allow an increase in petroleum product exporting. Which will make domestic money here.

Jim:

"The oil is going to China. We will never put any in our tanks.

Well THANK YOU President Obama ....

China didn't hesitate now did it?"

The Keystone Pipeline corporations already have a pipeline to the Midwest refineries providing Canadian shale oil to America. Can you tell me why else would they build a pipeline all the way to Texas refineries on the Gulf Coast. From the start the plan has been to sell that oil in Asia, generally to China. They make higher profits. China is now a shareholder in those companies.

Leave Obama out of this picture!!!

the woodriver\hartford Il refinery does 306,000 bbls per day.. it's the 8th largest in America.. so it's a chunk as well it's ConocoPhillips largest US refinery..

There's barely any refining done outside of the coasts. Almost 50% of all of it is done in the Gulf

there is a lot of refining done outside the coasts.. nearly every state.... here's a list of all.. http://www.eia.gov/neic/rankings/refineries.htm I will grant you though that some of the largest are in the gulf.. 2 of the top 10 are middle states...

as well here's a link on the current Keystone pipeline http://www.transcanada.com/keystone_pipeline_map.html

The Keystone Pipeline corporations already have a pipeline to the Midwest refineries providing Canadian shale oil to America.

There is not really any large direct pipeline. It goes thru exchanges in various states to get to midwest refineries. Which there aren't many of. Hardly any oil is refined in the midwest when you look at a national picture.

Most Canadian oil we are seeing is not oil shale. It's oil sand.

Can you tell me why else would they build a pipeline all the way to Texas refineries on the Gulf Coast. From the start the plan has been to sell that oil in Asia, generally to China. They make higher profits. China is now a shareholder in those companies.

It's to sell refined products not crude oil. The gulf is the biggest refinery center in the entire country. Nationally, all refineries are underused. In addition, domestic consumption of refined products is down.

Obviously, you have companies who want to export more refined products to globally emerging markets. Canada doesn't have a large refining capacity.

So you have companies both foriegn and domestic who want their refineries here to generate more money by exporting the goods.

Increased exports is good, having increased supply that is on the domestic exchange will make prices lower by default (even if 100% of the increase is exported).

There is unlimited money and power behind this travesty of a pipeline across our nation--literally cutting us in half and threatening our priceless aquifers in that region. All for the benefit of the 1% who profit from oil without care for our environmental concerns. The oil produced has always been meant for China so will solve no imagined oil shortages.

The fact that some posters here put forth this Kochstone pipeline as a savior of our nation tells me that they have drunk deep of the propaganda put out by the Kochs et al.

There's some simple facts.

1) Alternative sources can't compete without government subsidy. Period. The technology isn't scalable enough, refined enough, or cheap enough.

Given the state of many governments balance sheets, *that's not going to change*

2) Given how cheap the domestic sources are (for nat gas, coal, oil, etc) they can be extracted with environmental costs for protection. Obviously, something that needs to happen in our backyard.

3) I don't know when government and corporation are made seperate, but that's gotta happen to fix the imbalances.

the woodriver\hartford Il refinery does 306,000 bbls per day.. it's the 8th largest in America.. so it's a chunk as well it's ConocoPhillips largest US refinery..

there is a lot of refining done outside the coasts.. nearly every state.... here's a list of all.. http://www.eia.gov/neic/rankings/refineries.htm

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_cap1_a_(na)_8D0_BpCD_a.htm

Let's get more specific. Actual operable refining capacity for atmospheric crude oil distillation (largest segment of capacity).

17.7 million BPD in 2011. Midwest total Capacity 3.7 million BPD. To me 20% of the total just isn't. 75% is done on the Coasts. The Gulf Cost is 50% of it.

Maybe I shouldn't say Hardly any, but other than the Great Lakes refinery centers, there's not.

I'll blame the Republicans! They and Big Oil are using gas prices to keep the economy down by hobbling commerce! Keep giving them the keys to the car and they'll keep driving US into the ditch!

I love how when Republicans are in the majority....everything is their fault....and for so many, when Democrats are in the majority....everything is still Republicans fault.

After all, it was only a few years back when gas prices spiked and it was all Bush's fault because he was President.....but now....there is somebody with a (D) behind their name in office and the same people who were blaming Bush before, are explaining how someone else is to blame.

Excuse me for pointing out that it was Democrats that took control of Congress in 2006, and how Democrats were in control of all three branches of government for two of the past three years. And by all means, let's totally ignore the fact that Democrats currently control 2 of the 3 branches of government. Those are just inconvenient facts! Those Republicans control everything all the time...no matter who has the majority or White House. They must have some kind of mind control device? Better keep wearing your tin foil hats or they will get you also...lol

"There is no supply issue going on here - what you have is the perception of the possibility of a supply issue," Dicker says. "A whole bunch of people are pouring money into an oil market trying to take advantage of what they perceive to be a real risk in supply. It's a marketplace that I argue should not be allowed to be wagered on like a stock or bond."

The "real risk in supply" is the coming war with Iran, like I said.

Mike

From the start the plan has been to sell that oil in Asia, generally to China. They make higher profits.

How ? Higher profits ... A barrel of oil is a barrel of oil its price is set daily on the world market...

Its got to be cheaper to pump through a pipeline to the US... get it to the coast and load it on tankers and ship it half way around the world ....

I am not disagreeing with you, just we do have different sources of information... Check this out and let me know what ya think....

Promise of American jobs from proposed Canadian pipeline is pipe dream

Now, for the statement the Canadians “will sell the oil to China.” Well, they will only sell it to them if the Keystone Pipeline is built. Not if it’s not built. The threat to build the Enbridge Northern Gateway pipeline across the Canadian Rockies (proposed as 2,731 miles long) to the Pacific and to build a deep water port and a refinery has been a pipe dream since the year 2000. The Canadians had an agreement with PetroChina in 2005 for 200,000 barrels a day, but the Chinese canceled in 2007 because of delays. The pipeline is still being protested by native Indians and is still in environmental study by the Canadian government. The cost was set at $C 5.5 billion in 2005

http://www.hidesertstar.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/article_5b37ce82-545d-11e1-90f6-0019bb2963f4.html

Jim44, you do realize that oil exploration in the US has risen by over 50% under this president right? I am sure you also realize that oil production in the US has never been higher than under the current administration, right? In fact, the worst year for US oil production, i.e. mining, under this administration was higher than the best of the last 4 years under the last administration. And you also must know that not one drop of oil mined here is meant to stay here, right? It all goes into the pot and is co-mingled with oil from all over the world. From there it is shipped to the highest bidder, but I am certain that you would not be ranting about something that you didn't know anything about, or would you?

Ron, you do realize that our current President had nothing to do with anything you mentioned...right? You do realize that Bush's policies are responsible for everything you mentioned...right? In fact, the numbers would be considerably higher except for the policies of our current President. Let's be honest please.

Oil drilling operations in the US have quadrupled under this president, fact. Many of those permits were started under the Bush era, yes, not even most, but many. This administration has increased the areas for exploration in the gulf and arctic by 75%, fact, not the Bush administration, this one. And in case we forget, he put a stop to all of the leases and deep water drilling for over six months, if he were so anti-exploration and mining, he could have turned most of the previous administrations permit applications down, he didn't. I am so tired of people claiming that the oil companies have been stopped from drilling, it's BS and anyone who claims otherwise is either shamefully uneducated or just plain lying.

Even if you believe that this administration has slowed drilling, which is debatable, no one can claim that more drilling will positively effect gas prices here. For the first time in recent history (50+years), the US exports more oil than it imports, this is a fact. If this fact doesn't disprove the idiotic notion that more oil drilling here will bring down prices, then nothing will get past the dead brain tissue in those peoples minds. So yes, let's be honest here. You're welcome.

Why do people that support President Obama always say something is a FACT yet never provide any way to support their statements...

Hey Ron ... Gve you facts with links to sources... Or please just call them your opinions...

If we are going to talk about "facts"

Here is an interesting graph on oil production in the US

Here is the same information by year

I suppose, as a state senator, Obama some how was able to start the upward trend in oil production in the US.......right?

Here you go, links for the clueless.

http://www.chron.com/business/energy/article/N-American-oil-output-could-top-40-year-old-peak-2193837.php

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2011/may/11/jim-moran/jim-moran-says-us-oil-production-highest-level-03/

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/smart-takes/for-first-time-in-20-years-us-becomes-net-exporter-of-fuel/16058

There are plenty more and we could go on and on, however, you only have to Google and you too can do your own research. Of course that assumes you really care if your rhetoric is accurate or just talking points, I would venture a guess that you are just regurgitating the lies you have heard.

you only have to Google and you too can do your own research.

Or when you state something is a FACT you provide a source to support your claim... You Know like in a book they footnote it ... Well in a forum discussion its kind of nice to provide some sort of proof when you say something is a FACT!

Of course that assumes you really care if your rhetoric is accurate or just talking points

I'd have to ask that question of you sir, because apparently you are wanting us to believe that some how President Obama, while he was a state senator, made the federal policy that began this upward trend that we are experiencing.....when the truth is the trend would be much more upward except for the difficulties the Obama administration have created for the oil companies since taking office.

While many of the new well's leases were approved under the previous administration, all were put on hold after the oil spill, remember that? Since then there have been a huge increase in new wells, all approved by this administration. So you are only partially right, in that GW allowed everyone to obtain a drilling permit, however many of those had to reapply under the new regulations. So in short, this administration has approved hundreds of new rigs, ergo, this Presidents energy policy is not much different than the lasts, to say otherwise is a fallacy and best, an outright lie in most cases. But nice try, NOT.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/mar/29/michele-bachmann/michele-bachmann-claims-there-has-been-just-one-ne/

OK...I see your argument. You are saying that Obama is doing everything the same way Bush did so therefore Obama deserves all the credit. Kinda like the Iraq war huh? Where Obama followed the plans of withdrawal that were left to him by the previous administration, so therefore Obama deserves all the credit. I see your logic.

OK...I see your argument. You are saying that Obama is doing everything the same way Bush did so therefore Obama deserves all the credit.

No, I am saying that things haven't changed much, although the regulations are being updated and enforced. More to the point, I am saying that all those that are screaming about the Presidents energy policy being anti-oil, are full of @!$%#. That is what I have been saying throughout this thread. Not that he is any better or worse, just posting facts in the face of their unsubstantiated rhetoric.

those that are screaming about the Presidents energy policy being anti-oil, are full of @!$%#.

Obama bans eastern Gulf drilling for 7 years

President Barack Obama will not be allowing new drilling in the eastern Gulf of Mexico for at least seven years, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar announced Wednesday.

The exploration of drilling possibilities in sensitive areas of the Arctic will proceed "with utmost caution," he said.

Obama's decision effectively reverses White House plans announced at the end of March to open the Gulf region -- along with other large swaths of U.S. coastal waters -- to oil and natural gas drilling.

Under the plan, roughly two-thirds of available oil and gas resources in the eastern Gulf would have been opened to drilling. Areas located within 125 miles of the Florida coast would have remained off limits.

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-01/politics/obama.gulf.drilling_1_drilling-rig-oil-drilling-gulf-spill?_s=PM:POLITICS

Obama Extends Moratorium on Offshore Drilling

Escalating his administration's response to the disastrous Gulf oil spill, President Barack Obama announced Thursday a moratorium on new deepwater oil drilling permits will be continued for six months while a presidential commission investigates, a White House aide said.

Controversial lease sales off the coast of Alaska will be delayed pending the results of the commission's investigation, and lease sales planned in the Western Gulf and off the coast of Virginia are canceled, the President announced at a news conference.

Shell Oil was poised to begin exploratory drilling this summer on Arctic leases as far as 140 miles offshore.

Those steps, along with new oversight and safety standards are the results of a 30-day safety review of offshore drilling conducted by Interior Secretary Ken Salazar at Mr. Obama's direction.

With the moves, Mr. Obama is exerting control over the response to the five-week-old spill amid growing criticism about leadership from the White House even as BP's efforts to stop the leak are finally showing promise after a series of failures.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-6523412.html

First rig sails away over deep-water drilling ban

First rig sails away over drilling ban
Lawmakers and experts fear loss is only the start of offshore exodus

Diamond Offshore announced Friday that its Ocean Endeavor drilling rig will leave the Gulf of Mexico and move to Egyptian waters immediately — making it the first to abandon the United States in the wake of the BP oil spill and a ban on deep-water drilling.

And the Ocean Endeavor's exodus probably won't be the last, according to oil industry officials and Gulf Coast leaders who warn that other companies eager to find work for the now-idled rigs are considering moving them outside the U.S.

Devon Energy Corp. had been leasing the Endeavor to drill in the same region of the Gulf as BP's leaking Macondo well, which has been gushing crude since a lethal blowout April 20.

But Diamond announced Friday it will lease the rig through June 30, 2011, to Cairo-based Burullus Gas Co., which plans to send the Endeavor to Egyptian waters immediately.

http://www.chron.com/business/energy/article/First-rig-sails-away-over-deep-water-drilling-ban-1712798.php

Obama, Soros, Petrobras, Brazil & offshore drilling double standards

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/19/obama-soros-petrobras-brazil-offshore-drilling-double-standards/

Really seems there maybe something to those screams...

And it seems this administration has a strange look at gas prices...

Energy Secretary Chu Admits Administration OK with High Gas Prices

COMMENTARY | President Barack Obama's Secretary of Energy Stephen Chu uttered the kind of Washington gaffe that consists of telling the truth when inconvenient. According to Politico, Chu admitted to a House committee that the administration is not interested in lowering gas prices.

Chu, along with the Obama administration, regards the spike in gas prices as a feature rather than a bug. High gas prices provide an incentive for alternate energy technology, a priority for the White House, and a decrease in reliance on oil for energy.

http://news.yahoo.com/energy-secretary-chu-admits-administration-ok-high-gas-193900713.html

Jim, not even a good try, please use current data.

1) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45210622/ns/us_news-environment/t/obama-expand-oil-gas-drilling-alaska-gulf/

2) The link about exploration in S. America is not an Obama policy, it is part of a program put in place under previous administrations to expand US businesses into world markets, Obama had nothing to do or say about it, again, more BS talking points.

3) as to this administration stance on gas prices; The only way that new forms of energy can be viable is to explore them, this will not happen as long as the government subsidises gas prices. As gas price at the pump starts to reflect the actual cost of gas, alternate energy sources become more viable. So, yes, this President is not going to subsidise the oil companies and lie to the American people like the previous ones or the current GOP clown show. The real cost for every gallon of gas is over $15, if all subsidies and the impact costs were factored in that is what we would be paying at the pump. At that price, alternate energy sources become quite the bargain. The problem being that most shallow minded folks, such as yourself, can't see the big picture.

Instead of just following the Limpbaughs and Palins of the world, maybe you should actually understand what you are railing about. Have a good day.

http://www.progress.org/gasoline.htm

http://www.iags.org/costofoil.html

Jim, not even a good try, please use current data.

That's funny.....allow me to translate...."Jim...regular news sources must be considered invalid, unless they support the lies our current administration are pushing, and only left wing radical news sources should be considered."

Instead of just following the Limpbaughs and Palins of the world, maybe you should actually understand what you are railing about.

Maybe, just maybe....if you had a more rounded approach to forming your opinions, instead of depending on all the leftist liberal links you provided for your information, a different perspective of reality might develop.

Mike ....

Why bother .... When people like Ron say stupid @!$%# like ...

The problem being that most shallow minded folks, such as yourself, can't see the big picture.

And

, maybe you should actually understand what you are railing about.

And then use obscure partisan sites to advance more crap than anyone deserves to have to read through ...in a life times .... I just consider the source and Move on ...

I mean someone that can find an in depth source like the two used above ...damn ... I understand why they feel they must resort to rude and condescending comments...

They have nothing else to rely on ...Most certainly not an Intellectually based Honest argument ... So... some (not naming names) must pretend to be the smartest person in the room... But is only actually becomes true when they are ALONE !

Please don't bother, it is too bothersome to try to educate those that don't believe in knowledge or reason. By your account, any position piece ever written becomes the definitive position even when circumstances change, what a dolt. My entire point in this discussion was to highlight the "fact" that those that scream that this president is anti-oil are full of @!$%#, if that fits your narrative then you too are full of @!$%#, the facts don't support your lame rhetoric. By using an article that was outdated, you only reinforce the notion that you have no idea what you are talking about. No surprise there.

Again, and slowly so you can understand, there are 4 times as many active oil rigs in the US now than there were under the last administration, this is based on the oil companies own data. For the first time in 40 years the US is a net exporter of oil, again, from big oil sources. In short, if you are one of those that listens to the spin and scream that Obama is killing the oil industry and stopping exploration, you are full of @!$%#, plain and simple. End of discussion. Likewise, if you believe that more drilling will bring down gas prices you are not only woefully uneducated in such matters, but you obviously do not have the intellectual curiosity to research for yourself. I would suggest you invest some time at a library or in front of your PC reading instead of looking at the pictures. Have a nice day.

Again, and slowly so you can understand, there are 4 times as many active oil rigs in the US now than there were under the last administration, this is based on the oil companies own data.

Again, and very very slowly Ron....I mean Dr Seuss slow just for you....the reason there are 4 times as many active oil rigs now is due to policies put in place by the last administration. There may well be 10 times more active oil rigs except for our current administrations interference.

Now I realize that Obama wants credit for anything and everything positive, and blames Bush for anything and everything negative......but those of us who observe things with an open mind see things differently than those who have their head buried up a donkey's butt.

Reality seems to have a way of escaping those on the left these days!! I suppose that's understandable when you rely on left wing radical blogs on the internet for your information!!

Don't read well do you? I have said all along that this is not about giving credit to Obama. It is, or at least should be understood that a president has little control over oil prices and that decisions made in the past have consequences in the present. So yes, and I'll type slow so it can sink in, this isn't about how or who approved the increased drilling, it is a rebuttal to the morons that keep saying that this president has stopped or handicapped the oil industry from drilling more. Did you get that?

It is also an admonishment of the idiots that think that more domestic drilling will lower our gas prices or that the Keystone XL project will increase supply domestically. Both of these right wing talking points have been debunked, as far as the Trans Canada Keystone XL pipeline, it is common knowledge, by anyone that actually understands the oil business, that most of the oil passing through it will be for the Asian market and that by extending the pipe line, the fuel glut in the mid west will disappear, causing an increase in fuel prices in the US heartland, this by Trans Canada's own accounting. When the House tried to force the building of this pipeline last week, the Dems tried to attach a rider on the bill that would have mandated that the work be completed with US steel and US labor, Trans Canada would not agree and the GOP blocked the amendments passage. So much for the promised jobs. It is a scam, the tar sands oil will make it's way through the US, at the same rate, without the pipeline through 2030, again by Trans Canada's own documents, the only difference is that more US companies will be able to profit from it, not just the Koch Brothers, who own a substantial share of Trans Canada.

Of course this is all meaningless to the likes of you and the other GOTP cult members, but the facts disprove any agrument that this president is crippling the oil industry or has any direct influence on oil prices, no matter what the idiots on the right try to make people believe.

http://www.thedcpost.com/?p=14440

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/293008/how-obama-choking-us-oil-production-mario-loyola

http://naturalresources.house.gov/Issues/Issue/?IssueID=15410

The facts speak for themselves Ron. The problem appears to be a lack of comprehension and blind support for the propaganda you have been fed.

Lets see here, first link is written by the "House Energy Commission" Hmmm, you mean the RNC but here goes anyway.

In 2007, the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) projected total 2010 U.S. oil production on federal lands to be 850 million barrels. Today’s actual production on federal lands is 714 million barrels, a 16 percent decline from what was projected.

So you are saying that the president strangled 16% from the projected total. That explains it all, I'm sorry I was wrong. NOT. Not even a good try on that one.

Your second link:

— Mario Loyola, a senior analyst at the Armstrong Center for Energy and the Environment, is director of the Center for Tenth Amendment Studies at the Texas Public Policy Foundation.

So in short you are basing your argument on the word of an oil company shill, from Tex Ass no less, lol. No problem, I have a rebuttal from another oil company shill, Robert Jones, VP, TransCanada.

"China's economy is growing at a rate of 9 to 11 percent every year, so they are very interested in buying Canadian oil," Jones said during a meeting of the Downtown Rotary at the Petroleum Club in Oklahoma City. "We will go to Asian markets. There's no question about that."

We can also go the other way, which says basically the same, only from a not-so-oil friendly source.

TransCanada’s 2008 Permit Application states “Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally PADD II [U.S. Midwest], are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil. Access to the USGC [U.S. Gulf Coast] via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in [the Midwest] by removing this oversupply. This is expected to increase the price of heavy crude to the equivalent cost of imported crude. The resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013 of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.”

Independent analysis of these figures found this would increase per-gallon prices by 20 cents/gallon in the Midwest.

And your third link, again from the RNC, and Rep. Doc Hastings no less, the same Doc Hastings that wants to gut the endangered species act, the "vote with the GOP 99% of the time, open up the wilderness to oil and logging, That Doc Hastings, no bias there. The ranting of this house committee are too long and wrong to list but here are a couple of examples of their idiocy. They claim that Obama is strangling energy because of the following:

Listed carbon dioxide as a hazardous pollutant, opening the door for the regulation of all CO2 emissions under the Clean Air Act.

I suppose that they blame Obama for making this a toxic substance when too much is ingested, give me a break, if it is soo good for you, then breath it for a while and tell me how you feel.

Blocked new uranium mining for two years on one million acres of land in Arizona.

Heaven forbid, Obama wouldn't let mining of Uranium cause environmental meltdown, the bastard.

Implemented numerous new hurdles to the leasing and development of new oil and natural gas on onshore federal lands.

Oops, that pesky regulations thing again, why can't Obama just let big oil do what they want, I mean they are very responsible, would never do anything that hurt anyone or cut corners. Damn that Obama.

Really no Common Sense, really? Is this all you have to hang your hat on? Are you that bereft of fact to back your rhetoric?

you mean the RNC but here goes anyway.

Ron who controlled the House in 2007 .... wasn't it the Democrats? Opps !

So you are saying that the president strangled 16% from the projected total. That explains it all, I'm sorry I was wrong. NOT. Not even a good try on that one.

Wouldn't the fact that the president is taking credit for all this oil production yet the truth is that the lands that he actually has some control over is providing less than projected ... Sounds like he is taking credit for things he should not be ...

I suppose that they blame Obama for making this a toxic substance when too much is ingested, give me a break, if it is soo good for you, then breath it for a while and tell me how you feel.

Wouldn't that apply to Water also ? So why not claim water as a toxic substance? Because if to much is ingested you die ... Sorry Ron ...any substance on the planet fits that logic ... It was a political move to support the environmental base and you know it ...

Ron who controlled the House in 2007 .... wasn't it the Democrats? Opps !

Opps? Don't you mean Oops? No matter. So what, in 2007 a projection was made, a projection which didn't take into account the largest off shore oil spill in US history, didn't take into account current trends or needs and three years later a Republican controlled House claims that projection as evidence of the current presidents anti-oil stance. No matter how stupid one is, this is a stretch. Again, are you really hanging your hat on a 3 year old "projection"? Using outdated information seems to be a trend with you and your kind.

It also seems that your reading comprehension is lacking, this entire conversation has not been about what the President did or did not take credit for, it was a rebuttal to the morons who keep saying that this administration is anti-oil and strangling oil production causing higher gas prices, all of which are moronic lies, believed only by those that drink the magic tea.

Wouldn't that apply to Water also ? So why not claim water as a toxic substance?

In many places water is toxic, thanks to those like Doc Hastings. He and his ilk have had their way in Tex Ass, which has the worst water quality in the US due to deregulation and blatant disregard for public safety. But short of that link, the big difference and the downfall of your analogy is that we are not making new water everyday and releasing it into the atmosphere. All the water that exists on the earth today has existed on earth since the beginning of life on this planet, no more, no less. That cannot be said about CO2, we have increased the level ex potentially and it is becoming a danger to every breathing thing on the planet. So, when you speak of substance, maybe you should understand the word first. Claims without substance are just partisan rhetoric, as are your current claims and most every post you have attached to this thread. Go home, read up on the subject and come back when you have something to say.